“The least of things with a meaning is worth more in life than the greatest of things without it.” Carl Jung, Practice of Psychotherapy We live in a world consumed by an endless series of crises. But of all the crises we face the one that may be of the greatest concern, is one that receives relatively little attention, and this is the crisis of meaning. In his essay
No. There is no meaning, ultimately, unless 1. God exists 2. He is personal 3. He loves us personally and 3. He offers eternal life to those who love him.
Paganism knows there is life after death, but does not know the personal God.
Psychology is not enough. Knowing the mythos is good for you is not enough. Unless God is real, personal, and will give us eternal life, the whole thing is a joke.
Pagans vary greatly in what they believe, but to the best of my knowledge the majority of us do know there is life after death, as you rightly say. I believe the vast majority of us happily acknowledge that there's "Great Spirit" or an overarching essence (many say God) which embraces all what we consider to be creation, including humanity. Connection with the divine varies hugely between people, and can be made with and through Nature. Often communities with a pantheon of deities, such as Hindus and modern Druids, regard each deity as an aspect of the Whole or Great Spirit. In a way because we're of Spirit, we are immortal (but the body in which our spirit/soul currently resides is not).
Unfortunately the mainstream, revealed religions have attracted zealots and murderers over the centuries. On the other hand, such religions can engender the best in people provided that people accept differences in religious or spiritual outlook and practice.
Christians have an understanding of the fallenness of human nature that I don’t find in paganism. And don’t forget the bloodthirstyness of pagans: human sacrifice, child sacrifice, slavery. Modern pagans, if they don’t do those things, learned not to from Christianity.
In any case, human beings are both a marvel and a mess, and there is only one who gets us out of the mess, Jesus. Plus remember, pagans do not know the God who loves. They know, if they’re honest, only forces, not a Person.
Still, the fact that they acknowledge the transcendent places them closer to the truth than an atheist.
Modern pagans tend to be peaceful and most certainly don't abuse others. Sacrifice of any sort was left behind centuries, if not millennia, ago. Many pagans do experience transcendent love. The Catholic Church has a rather chequered history, including the Spanish Inquisition and, more recently, child abuse:
"Between 1970 and 2015, the church in England and Wales received more than 900 complaints involving more than 3,000 instances of child sexual abuse, made against more than 900 individuals, including priests, monks and volunteers". The Guardian.
Right, some left sacrifice behind bc of the influence of Christianity. But many modern pagans support the child sacrifice of abortion. I’m not saying you do, I’m saying many do. And the sexual abuse in the Church is a terrible scandal. But are there pagans who are pedophiles?
Btw, no Catholic denies that Xns have done bad things. So that’s not really an argument on your side. Let’s stipulate a Christian notion, that human beings are a mess. We call it fallen.
But so how do pagans experience transcendent love? Is it a personal love, the love of one person for another? Or is it a kind of oceanic experience of peace?
I accept that the latter can occur, but not that the universe can love you. But we should get more exact in our words. Are you a pagan who worships a particular god? An animist? Or more of a pantheist?
By the law of averages, the possibility that there are pagan pedophiles exists. Love is impossible for me to describe. For me divine or transcendent love is oceanic in that it includes the Whole, but is a personal experience. This can be arrived at by meditation, on rare occasions. An aspect of Paganism is that it accommodates variations in people's beliefs, because we're all different to a degree. Linguistic exactitude in spiritual or religious matters is challenging because essentially we're trying to describe something which is beyond language as we understand it. There is no clear definition of Paganism. I do believe that there is life (or divinity) in all things, a form of animism, perhaps. So, being in the countryside brings true inner connection and nourishment. Humankind is definitely a mess. For me the causes are unclear, but may have originated with the advent of urbanisation, central government, standing armies and the love of money. This is a generalisation, but this may have originated in what was known as Sumeria, some 5 to 7,000 years ago. The historical record suggests this may have been the first "civilisation". Broadly speaking, Sumeria was located in the general area between and around the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, if my memory is correct.
By my observations of nature I can assure the writers of this essay and video that the meaning of life is beyond human understanding but all creatures, regardless of size or intelligence are part of it and if it is good enough for them, then it is good enough for me.
The beautiful thing Frances, is, as flawed as we are as Humans, and how totally lacking we are in so many facets of our being, which mercifully in some ways , aid in making us a species on earth, there are the fortunate among us who have thrown off Mysticism, Religion, Whatever else you would want to add .
Whose lives are guided by principals that enable us to bring up Families that Live and Love Life.
No Belief in a Higher Power, No belief in a "GOD" To guide us.
As for the essay, Religion is on full display as we speak, and has been for the last five thousand years. Religion has had Great Reviews and has made many great claims for itself. But now as more and more Religions come under scrutiny, the truth about their claims tend to not meet any standard of proof nor can they pass the test of credulity.
Frances I propose the opposite, that belief in Religion is the Gateway to mental illness, to murder, to war, To Submission of your faculties , and to place yourself at the mercy of an Idealogy or mire aptly named, CULTS.
…We live in a world consumed by an endless series of crises…
If that were true, it would be legitimate to ask where do these crises come from? The supplies are overflowing (although are stocked or distributed unevenly), the outcome of technological production have always exceeded the needs of the market numberwise, the marriage of science and technology follows up on the vague promise of 1970s and 1980s that “computers will make labour unnecessary and will bring milk and honey to everyone… etc.”
Obviously, as a communal species, we are now more developed, mature and responsible than we were in 1914 or in 1941 - which is why the humanity completely discontinued the manufacture, proliferation and use of any life-threatening weapons, phasing out even small arms.
Continuous deep integrity of our leaders and inventors helped to finally turn money into a means rather than an end. We have managed to eradicate all forms of financial manipulations, engaging honesty and sincerity to be the leading virtues of all business. Clearly, it resulted in the flood of funds withdrawn from speculative schemes to be used to eradicate poverty, homelessness and manageable health issues worldwide. Former billionaires are now happily living off basic income, knowing that their efforts bring decent living conditions literally everywhere.
After over 100 years of fighting against the Nature, we have come to the understanding that this was a wrong approach. We have wisely forbidden any new grabbing of land and restricted all industrial projects to be planned within the existing technological locations. This was possible only because our managers and CEOs, supported by their shareholders and funders, were wise enough to stop redundant work, share their knowledge and build common good - replacing patents, stock exchanges, confidentiality and fictitious management positions with open debates on improved performance at minimized costs.
Last but not least, we have disbanded all schools that were mass producing fancy title holders without any real value and any real perspective in the future. Focusing on benefit-driven education literally reshaped the economic landscape of the world for the good of every inhabitant of the Earth. Implementation of true in-depth education, supported by honesty of all people with decision making powers, was the key step to get rid of scams like global cooling (20th c.), global warming (early 21st c.), energy crisis, shortage of fossil fuels, inefficiency of combustion engines, or promotion of false electric vehicle technologies or hostile attitude of neighboring countries.
After the banking system recognized the importance of product-supported currency and discontinued loans to those who already had enough funds, national finances markedly improved in every single country. The pharmacological industry quickly followed, withdrawing all funding from research and leveling salaries of all positions in the health care to one uniform Basic Medical Pay, of the same value in all countries of the world, and equal to the true average income per person counted from the data of all countries of the world combined. All therapies became free benefits, available to anyone who needed them. Obviously, the social security system was no longer necessary, so after its dissolution trillions were released to further improve living conditions.
As you can see, crises have no place in the Advanced Human Civilization AD 2023. Finally worth His name, we are now truly in His image.
No, really, that's why a smiley at the end of the line. I thought I was original, spent half an hour on proper wording to convey what I thought, only to hear "Ah, I now that, you're parroting Colbert". Oh my.
Asking about him (who doesn't know SC?) was intended as a hint. Didn't work. And that's ok.
Rather than religion, perhaps simply a general openness to the numinous, to grace, would suffice?
I have recently overcome narrative thinking through trauma therapy. My narrative was shaped by adverse events from my past. Once this narrative no longer existed, I was left without any narrative to shape my personal story. And it was terrifying. But freedom is always terrifying.
I began to realize that I must shape my own narrative, all the while observing that narrative can begin to shape us if we allow it. The mollifying effects of narrative are hardly much different than any other means we use as a salve for existential pain. Which is why narrative cannot extend past our present moment -- we cannot shape our arc from where we are sitting; we can only turn around and view the arc behind us.
The solution to existential pain is not mythos but rather pathos. Through the exercise of self-love we begin to learn to exercise real love in every aspect of our lives. Love nurtures growth and as man exercises real love for himself and others, we grow together. And as we grow, we can strengthen our inner selves, we can do away with masks and protective defenses and begin to feel our greater oneness with the world around us. And we begin to get a sense that, in some manner, we go on. That our egocentric and anthropocentric views of the universe are narrow and limited. And somehow, no matter where we end up, we will be okay.
No. There is no meaning, ultimately, unless 1. God exists 2. He is personal 3. He loves us personally and 3. He offers eternal life to those who love him.
Paganism knows there is life after death, but does not know the personal God.
Psychology is not enough. Knowing the mythos is good for you is not enough. Unless God is real, personal, and will give us eternal life, the whole thing is a joke.
Pagans vary greatly in what they believe, but to the best of my knowledge the majority of us do know there is life after death, as you rightly say. I believe the vast majority of us happily acknowledge that there's "Great Spirit" or an overarching essence (many say God) which embraces all what we consider to be creation, including humanity. Connection with the divine varies hugely between people, and can be made with and through Nature. Often communities with a pantheon of deities, such as Hindus and modern Druids, regard each deity as an aspect of the Whole or Great Spirit. In a way because we're of Spirit, we are immortal (but the body in which our spirit/soul currently resides is not).
Unfortunately the mainstream, revealed religions have attracted zealots and murderers over the centuries. On the other hand, such religions can engender the best in people provided that people accept differences in religious or spiritual outlook and practice.
Christians have an understanding of the fallenness of human nature that I don’t find in paganism. And don’t forget the bloodthirstyness of pagans: human sacrifice, child sacrifice, slavery. Modern pagans, if they don’t do those things, learned not to from Christianity.
In any case, human beings are both a marvel and a mess, and there is only one who gets us out of the mess, Jesus. Plus remember, pagans do not know the God who loves. They know, if they’re honest, only forces, not a Person.
Still, the fact that they acknowledge the transcendent places them closer to the truth than an atheist.
Modern pagans tend to be peaceful and most certainly don't abuse others. Sacrifice of any sort was left behind centuries, if not millennia, ago. Many pagans do experience transcendent love. The Catholic Church has a rather chequered history, including the Spanish Inquisition and, more recently, child abuse:
"Between 1970 and 2015, the church in England and Wales received more than 900 complaints involving more than 3,000 instances of child sexual abuse, made against more than 900 individuals, including priests, monks and volunteers". The Guardian.
Right, some left sacrifice behind bc of the influence of Christianity. But many modern pagans support the child sacrifice of abortion. I’m not saying you do, I’m saying many do. And the sexual abuse in the Church is a terrible scandal. But are there pagans who are pedophiles?
Btw, no Catholic denies that Xns have done bad things. So that’s not really an argument on your side. Let’s stipulate a Christian notion, that human beings are a mess. We call it fallen.
But so how do pagans experience transcendent love? Is it a personal love, the love of one person for another? Or is it a kind of oceanic experience of peace?
I accept that the latter can occur, but not that the universe can love you. But we should get more exact in our words. Are you a pagan who worships a particular god? An animist? Or more of a pantheist?
By the law of averages, the possibility that there are pagan pedophiles exists. Love is impossible for me to describe. For me divine or transcendent love is oceanic in that it includes the Whole, but is a personal experience. This can be arrived at by meditation, on rare occasions. An aspect of Paganism is that it accommodates variations in people's beliefs, because we're all different to a degree. Linguistic exactitude in spiritual or religious matters is challenging because essentially we're trying to describe something which is beyond language as we understand it. There is no clear definition of Paganism. I do believe that there is life (or divinity) in all things, a form of animism, perhaps. So, being in the countryside brings true inner connection and nourishment. Humankind is definitely a mess. For me the causes are unclear, but may have originated with the advent of urbanisation, central government, standing armies and the love of money. This is a generalisation, but this may have originated in what was known as Sumeria, some 5 to 7,000 years ago. The historical record suggests this may have been the first "civilisation". Broadly speaking, Sumeria was located in the general area between and around the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, if my memory is correct.
Ok, thanks for the reply. Pagans, as I said, are closer to the truth than atheists. May God bless you with more truth.
By my observations of nature I can assure the writers of this essay and video that the meaning of life is beyond human understanding but all creatures, regardless of size or intelligence are part of it and if it is good enough for them, then it is good enough for me.
The beautiful thing Frances, is, as flawed as we are as Humans, and how totally lacking we are in so many facets of our being, which mercifully in some ways , aid in making us a species on earth, there are the fortunate among us who have thrown off Mysticism, Religion, Whatever else you would want to add .
Whose lives are guided by principals that enable us to bring up Families that Live and Love Life.
No Belief in a Higher Power, No belief in a "GOD" To guide us.
As for the essay, Religion is on full display as we speak, and has been for the last five thousand years. Religion has had Great Reviews and has made many great claims for itself. But now as more and more Religions come under scrutiny, the truth about their claims tend to not meet any standard of proof nor can they pass the test of credulity.
Frances I propose the opposite, that belief in Religion is the Gateway to mental illness, to murder, to war, To Submission of your faculties , and to place yourself at the mercy of an Idealogy or mire aptly named, CULTS.
https://stevenberger.substack.com/p/believing-in-a-mirage?utm_medium=reader2
Mark, how do you explain NDEs?
NDE? Is that Like BTO
Or WHO
Or NAFTA? OR OR OR
Near death experiences.
OH NO !!
I just had a near mind exploding experience.
Just as I finished writing to you I deleted My Response!
Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Sorry
So you can’t explain them. I can.
Interestingly I wrote this today:
https://boodicca.substack.com/p/what-is-black-magic
…We live in a world consumed by an endless series of crises…
If that were true, it would be legitimate to ask where do these crises come from? The supplies are overflowing (although are stocked or distributed unevenly), the outcome of technological production have always exceeded the needs of the market numberwise, the marriage of science and technology follows up on the vague promise of 1970s and 1980s that “computers will make labour unnecessary and will bring milk and honey to everyone… etc.”
Obviously, as a communal species, we are now more developed, mature and responsible than we were in 1914 or in 1941 - which is why the humanity completely discontinued the manufacture, proliferation and use of any life-threatening weapons, phasing out even small arms.
Continuous deep integrity of our leaders and inventors helped to finally turn money into a means rather than an end. We have managed to eradicate all forms of financial manipulations, engaging honesty and sincerity to be the leading virtues of all business. Clearly, it resulted in the flood of funds withdrawn from speculative schemes to be used to eradicate poverty, homelessness and manageable health issues worldwide. Former billionaires are now happily living off basic income, knowing that their efforts bring decent living conditions literally everywhere.
After over 100 years of fighting against the Nature, we have come to the understanding that this was a wrong approach. We have wisely forbidden any new grabbing of land and restricted all industrial projects to be planned within the existing technological locations. This was possible only because our managers and CEOs, supported by their shareholders and funders, were wise enough to stop redundant work, share their knowledge and build common good - replacing patents, stock exchanges, confidentiality and fictitious management positions with open debates on improved performance at minimized costs.
Last but not least, we have disbanded all schools that were mass producing fancy title holders without any real value and any real perspective in the future. Focusing on benefit-driven education literally reshaped the economic landscape of the world for the good of every inhabitant of the Earth. Implementation of true in-depth education, supported by honesty of all people with decision making powers, was the key step to get rid of scams like global cooling (20th c.), global warming (early 21st c.), energy crisis, shortage of fossil fuels, inefficiency of combustion engines, or promotion of false electric vehicle technologies or hostile attitude of neighboring countries.
After the banking system recognized the importance of product-supported currency and discontinued loans to those who already had enough funds, national finances markedly improved in every single country. The pharmacological industry quickly followed, withdrawing all funding from research and leveling salaries of all positions in the health care to one uniform Basic Medical Pay, of the same value in all countries of the world, and equal to the true average income per person counted from the data of all countries of the world combined. All therapies became free benefits, available to anyone who needed them. Obviously, the social security system was no longer necessary, so after its dissolution trillions were released to further improve living conditions.
As you can see, crises have no place in the Advanced Human Civilization AD 2023. Finally worth His name, we are now truly in His image.
This was an Extended Steven Colbert Monologue
And this is rude :-)
Who is Steven Colbert?
Its ok Dan
He is an American Late Night Talk Show Host
Who is known to ramble on at times.
And Rude? How so?
No, really, that's why a smiley at the end of the line. I thought I was original, spent half an hour on proper wording to convey what I thought, only to hear "Ah, I now that, you're parroting Colbert". Oh my.
Asking about him (who doesn't know SC?) was intended as a hint. Didn't work. And that's ok.
https://stevenberger.substack.com/p/believing-in-a-mirage?utm_medium=reader2
Rather than religion, perhaps simply a general openness to the numinous, to grace, would suffice?
I have recently overcome narrative thinking through trauma therapy. My narrative was shaped by adverse events from my past. Once this narrative no longer existed, I was left without any narrative to shape my personal story. And it was terrifying. But freedom is always terrifying.
I began to realize that I must shape my own narrative, all the while observing that narrative can begin to shape us if we allow it. The mollifying effects of narrative are hardly much different than any other means we use as a salve for existential pain. Which is why narrative cannot extend past our present moment -- we cannot shape our arc from where we are sitting; we can only turn around and view the arc behind us.
The solution to existential pain is not mythos but rather pathos. Through the exercise of self-love we begin to learn to exercise real love in every aspect of our lives. Love nurtures growth and as man exercises real love for himself and others, we grow together. And as we grow, we can strengthen our inner selves, we can do away with masks and protective defenses and begin to feel our greater oneness with the world around us. And we begin to get a sense that, in some manner, we go on. That our egocentric and anthropocentric views of the universe are narrow and limited. And somehow, no matter where we end up, we will be okay.
If by "religion" you mean the degenerated inventions of Uman Thought then the lack of all of them can only bring Balance to the Uman Mind!
Thank You Frances
And The Belief of Religion Offers No Respite From Delusion